Seldon shrugged. "I have not studied such matters."

"You don't have to. You know that, politically, the last century or two has been a time of turmoil. Imperial reigns have been short and sometimes have been shortened further by assassination-"

"Even mentioning that," put in Seldon, "is close to treason. I'd rather you didn't-"

"Well, there." Joranum threw himself back in his seat. "See how insecure you are. The Empire is decaying. I'm willing to say so openly. Those who follow me do so because they know only too well it is. We need someone at the Emperor's right hand who can control the Empire, subdue the rebellious impulses that seem to be arising everywhere, give the armed forces the natural leadership they should have, lead the economy-"

Seldon made an impatient stopping motion with his arm. "And you're the one to do it, are you?"

"I intend to be the one. It won't be an easy job and I doubt there would be many volunteers-for good reason. Certainly Demerzel can't do it. Under him, the decline of the Empire is accelerating to a total breakdown."

"But you can stop it?"

"Yes, Dr. Seldon. With your help. With psychohistory."

"Perhaps Demerzel could stop the breakdown with psychohistory-if psychohistory existed."

Joranum said calmly, "It exists. Let us not pretend it does not. But its existence does not help Demerzel. Psychohistory is only a tool. It needs a brain to understand it and an arm to wield it."

"And you have those, I take it?"

"Yes. I know my own virtues. I want psychohistory."

Seldon shook his head. "You may want it all you please. I don't have it.

"You do have it. I will not argue the point." Joranum leaned closer as though wishing to insinuate his voice into Seldon's ear, rather than allowing the sound waves to carry it there. "You say you are a patriot. I must replace Demerzel to avoid Imperial destruction. However, the manner of replacement might itself weaken the Empire desperately. I do not wish that. You can advise me how to achieve the end smoothly, subtly, without harm or damage-for the sake of the Empire."