"I suspect you will find that no individual is ever truly crucial. Not even I-or you."

"Perhaps you're right. I find that, no matter how I work away under these assumptions, I nevertheless think of myself as crucial, in a kind of supernormal egotism that transcends all sense. And you are crucial, too, which is something I have come here to discuss with you-as frankly as possible. I must know."

"Know what?" The remains of the meal had been cleared away by a porter and the room's lighting dimmed somewhat so that the walls seemed to close in and give a feeling of great privacy.

Seldon said, "Joranum." He bit off the word, as though feeling the mention of the name alone should be sufficient.

"Ah. Yes."**

"You know about him?"

"Of course. How could I not know?"

"Well, I want to know about him, too."

"What do you want to know?"

"Come, Daneel, don't play with me. Is he dangerous?"

"Of course he is dangerous. Do you have any doubt of that?"

"I mean, to you? To your position as First Minister?"

"That is exactly what I mean. That is how he is dangerous."

"And you allow it?"

Demerzel leaned forward, placing his left elbow on the table between them. "There are things that don't wait for my permission, Hari. Let us be philosophical about it. His Imperial Majesty, Cleon, First of that Name, has now been on the throne for eighteen years and for all that time I have been his Chief of Staff and then his First Minister, having served in scarcely lesser capacities during the last years of the reign of his father. It is a long time and First Ministers rarely remain that long in power."

"You are not the ordinary First Minister, Daneel, and you know it. You must remain in power while psychohistory is being developed. Don't smile at me. It's true. When we first met, eight years ago, you told me the Empire was in a state of decay and decline. Have you changed your mind about that?"